I don’t think the North will participate. The North has
never requested for National Conference; the North shall not ask for anything
in the conference, so the North is out of it. National Conference or whatever
you may call it has never been a request from the North. So, we are out of it.
Does that mean you personally do not believe
that a National Conference can fix the socio-political problems of Nigeria
I don’t believe so and I don’t feel a National Conference
is necessary.
What are your reasons for not believing in
National Conference
What is it for? What is the National Conference for,
because we (the North) never asked for it. Some people asked for it. Let us
know what is wrong with Nigeria that they want a National Conference.
Many people from the North who never believed
in National Conference appear to be changing their minds. Why wouldn’t you have
a rethink
I don’t believe in it. The North as a region does not
believe in National Conference. So, I am not changing my mind. That is all.
The North believes that 2015 northern presidency is
non-negotiable. Nigeria, like other front-pew countries in Africa, is looking
for a president that can perform. Do you think the argument for a northern
presidency which carries a sectional coloration is still valid, given the fact
that what Nigeria needs now is a President by merit?
Are you telling me that Goodluck Jonathan is seeking to
continue beyond 2015 on merit? Why are some people so shameless? They will
deceive themselves and try to deceive others. How can any responsible person
tell me that Jonathan is fit to be the president of Nigeria?
From all indications, President Jonathan has
made up his mind to run for a second term. How can the North stop him
The North will surely stop him. This time, we will ensure
that we beat him. We are strategising. He may win the primaries in the Peoples
Democratic Party, but when it comes to the general elections, there is
absolutely no more room for Goodluck Jonathan. Yes, we will beat Goodluck
Jonathan.
Some pundits argue that when the North held on
to power for several years, Nigeria did not fare better. What is your view on
this
That argument is invalid. Who made Nigeria what it is in
terms of economic and political development? It is the North. It was the North
that brought Nigeria to what it is now. Do you want to tell me that it is only
this period of four years that Goodluck Jonathan was in charge that Nigeria
became a success? Who brought Nigeria to what it was before Jonathan? It is the
North.
How did the North achieve that
What a question! You asked me a question indicating that
during the period that the North was in charge of the country, nothing
happened. Now I am asking you if it were not the North when it was in charge,
that brought Nigeria to what it is now? You see, we should not distort history
because the facts are there to tell the story.
Do you think the North has fared well under
President Jonathan’s government
I cannot see any meaningful development in the North under the
Jonathan administration. I have not seen anything substantial. Take the federal
roads in Katsina and Kano. You will see that Jonathan has not done anything
tangible for the North. Most of the things we hear in favour of the North under
Goodluck Jonathan are only in newspapers. The North has fared very badly under
Jonathan.
For instance, these ceaseless killings of the Boko Haram
started during his time. The killings, kidnapping and other acts of lawlessness
in the country are products of Jonathan’s government and most of their effects
are in the North. So, who will like to continue with this kind of situation
under Jonathan?
Why do you think the Jonathan government has
brought so much misfortune to the North, as you have alleged
It is not that I think, rather it is a fact. It is a
fact. You remember that before the election of Jonathan, the North was fine.
There was law and order and everything was going on smoothly, but once he
assumed office, the whole country was torn into pieces. So, it’s not all about
what is my reason or why I think so—it is a fact. You know it and I know it,
everybody knows it. The beginning of Jonathan’s rule saw the beginning of this
Boko Haram. There is total insecurity in the country, not only in the North. If
you go to the South, there is insecurity in different forms. The North is
dissatisfied. And what we are saying is that it is the turn of the North to
produce the president. We are not agitating; it was an agreement. It is our
turn, our right and our time to produce the president of this country. It was
this same agreement that made Olusegun Obasanjo rule for eight years. Obasanjo
brought in Umaru Yar’Adua. Yar’Adua was supposed to rule for eight years, but
because he was sick, he ruled for two years and eventually died. And his
deputy, Jonathan, assumed office. He completed the two years and we left him
for another four years. Now, he still wants to continue for another four years
after 2015. That means Jonathan wants to be president for 10 years, which is
against the Constitution of Nigeria.
I was in the caucus when this gentleman’s agreement was
reached between the North and the South. We moved a motion that North should
have eight years and South eight years. Obasanjo did his eight years. Yar’Adua
did half of one term and he died. Jonathan completed the two years of Yar’Adua,
did another four years—and shamelessly, wants to continue. Now, even Obasanjo
and some southerners are saying that Jonathan is shameless because none of them
has been able to elongate their tenure.
The President has come out to say that he never promised
anyone to do only one term. Also, his handlers are saying that the agreement
was not documented and hence it is invalid.
We want him out because we are honourable people. The
North does not believe in the style of Jonathan’s government. The North detests
the bad rule of the Jonathan administration and we believe that if he knows God
and loves this country, he should keep to that agreement. In Jonathan’s
government, the North is in trouble. How would any sane person want this kind
of thing to continue?
What are those things President Jonathan is
not doing right
I don’t know whether he is doing anything right or wrong.
The country is in tatters. Whatever you may think he is doing right or wrong,
the whole world knows that Nigeria is getting destroyed. Go to the United
States of America, go to any part of the world, they will tell you that Nigeria
is in trouble. When the militants in Jonathan’s South-south started trouble
during the time of the late President Yar’Adua, he resolved the problem. Now,
in this Boko Haram insurgency, has Jonathan done anything tangible to stop it?
It is only to send soldiers to kill people.
In this light, can you generally appraise the
Federal Government’s approach to tackling the Boko Haram issue
Well, I can’t answer that question. I will not answer you
that question. Go ahead. You cannot have a country like Nigeria where there is
no peace. Right now, the country is virtually broke. You can imagine such
situation. As I am talking to you now, his own people (the South-south) are
stealing Nigeria blind. They brag that all the money is their own and they are
proud, saying: ‘We have oil, we have oil’. They are stealing the money. How can
you leave such a person to continue to be president?
You said Nigeria is broke. But the Presidency
has continued to say that the nation’s economy remains stable. How would you
balance this
They should stop deceiving themselves. You know these
things as a journalist, that Nigeria’s economy is in trouble. Some of these things
you hear are paper work. If the economy is stable, how has it affected the
common man? How much have the masses benefited from this so-called stable
economy? The economy is not doing well at all. Even the Minister of Finance,
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, has said so. How well is the economy doing when the
Federal Government cannot get enough money to share to the state and local
councils? In what way is the economy doing well? All the money you are talking
about is being stolen by those who said they own the oil.
Here in the North, there are many resources if well
harnessed that can even yield more money than oil. For instance, we have the
leather sector which has been rated second to oil in terms of export earnings.
The North is also known in the production of other agricultural products. What
have the northern governors and stakeholders done to ensure serious boost in
agriculture?
I agree with you. We cannot say we have done so well to
boost agriculture here in the North. Our state governments have not done their
best in the field of agriculture. I believe if the northern governors had put
in their best to boost agriculture in this region, the North would have been
better than it is now. That is true. We own agriculture, it is our own oil, but
we have not cared for it adequately.
Why is it so
I don’t know. I cannot say because I am not in power. I
am not a governor. I was a governor 30 years ago.
During your own time, what did you do to
encourage agriculture
Look, my friend, I think you know the politics of this
country. I am no longer a governor. When I was a governor, I did all I could to
encourage agriculture. In the old Kaduna State, agriculture was supreme. This
is over 30 years now. We put things in place then and our people benefited a
lot through agriculture. It was a legacy we inherited and we left the candle
burning.
You are aware of the challenges the country’s
education system is currently facing. What do you think should be done to
ensure that our children have qualitative education
I am very well versed in the politics of the ASUU strike.
I feel so sad for this country. I feel so sad that millions of our children
have been forced to remain at home for unexplainable reasons. I feel so sad
that the government has refused to put the right things in place so that
children of school age can have access to education at the right time. As I am
speaking to you, we have over 12 million children who do not have access to
education. The situation is not funny and it boils down to bad leadership. If
the government is sincere, I see no reason university students would remain at
home for four months running. This kind of situation gives opportunities to
social vices. I know it is bad on both sides of ASUU and the Federal Government
to have allowed the strike to take so long, but what I feel is that there is a
need to pump in more money to revitalise the education system. There is also
the need to get the right people to man the education system.
There are efforts by the Jonathan
administration to tackle the country’s power problem. Are you hopeful that
these efforts will yield the desired results
The Federal Government cannot give electricity to all
Nigerians. Some of the state governments are doing their best. There is some
improvement in the power sector due to the effort of some state governments. If
you take Katsina for instance, Governor Ibrahim Shema is going to enter
agreement with German companies and they are here working in Tunturi. When that
work is completed, power supply in Katsina will improve. So it is in other
serious states.
The Peoples Democratic Movement, PDM, and All
Progressives Congress, APC, are dissatisfied with PDP. Analysts are suggesting
that the PDM and APC should come together to be able to wrest power from the
PDP. What is your view
Yes, you are right and the analysts are right. We are
working very hard to ensure an alliance between the PDM and the APC. I assure
that soonest, it will materialise. We are working very hard, even by tomorrow
(Monday, 14 October), I will be going for a meeting for that purpose. The talks
are in progress and already, we are getting good results.
Now, one thing is certain. I said it about two years ago,
I said it last year—and I am saying it today: if by any chance the PDP fields
Jonathan to contest 2015 presidential election, PDP will lose.
Must the president come from the North in 2015
As far as I am concerned, it is a must. My own thinking
is that the president must come from the North in 2015 because that is the
agreement that allowed Obasanjo to rule for eight years.
If a better presidential material than
Jonathan emerges from the South, won’t you support the person
How do you know the person is a better candidate? A
candidate remains a candidate until he wins election and performs. When he
performs, we will now assess him and know whether he is better or not. You can
bring anybody and say he is a better candidate, but you have to let that person
perform first.
What qualities do you think a president should
have
People make a mistake. The North overwhelmingly voted for
Obasanjo. We never said we didn’t want him. We gave him the votes and all the
support he needed. It was not based on religion or ethnicity. Though Obasanjo
may not have been perfect, he demonstrated that he is a true Nigerian. We loved
him and we worked with him. But this man called Jonathan is not. This man is an
Ijaw. Must everybody become an Ijaw or go to Bayelsa before he is accepted?
This is ridiculous. Now, I know you want to ask why we don’t love Jonathan. It
is because he never loved us. Remember during Northern Peoples Congress, NPC,
days, the best alliance the North had was with the South-south.
What are the the sins of Jonathan
I will not tell you now.
How far has the North gone in reaching out to
the South-west and the South-east
We have reached out and we are still reaching out. If you
look at the APC, Muhammadu Buhari is there. And I have just told you that the
PDM and the APC are working hard to have an alliance and I assure you that we
will succeed. We have our contact men in those areas and they are very
dependable.
General Buhari and former Vice-President Atiku
Abubakar are from the North. Two of them are highly ambitious. Don’t you think
their personal ambitions may damage the dream of the North producing the president
No. Even if there is a clash of interest, one of them
must step down for the other. I can assure you that this time, the North is
determined. We mean business. The campaign has gone so deep and our people are
aware. They have been enlightened because nobody likes all these killings and
spate of insecurity. The youths, the women, are all aware of what is happening
and they are yearning for change. When it is time for election and Jonathan
comes out to contest, there is no state in the North that will give him
victory. They will not vote for Jonathan.
Some pundits have argued that the North no
longer speaks with one voice. It is believed that owing to the domination of
the Hausa-Fulani both in politics and business, other ethnic groups feel
marginalised. What is your view
Those pundits are deceiving themselves. We have one and
indivisible North and we speak with one voice. From Benue to Taraba, from
Taraba to Sokoto, Kaduana to Borno, we are one North, holding 19 out of the 36
states. We are not divided and nobody can divide us. We have one agenda—that
Goodluck Jonathan should vacate Aso Rock in 2015 for a President from the
North. Anybody who feels the North is divided is daydreaming. The North remains
united and determined to take back what is ours.
Given the ongoing crisis in the PDP, do you
see the G-7 Governors dumping the party
I don’t see them leaving the party. What I see them doing
is to stay in the party and frustrate Jonathan’s bid to get a second term. This
is so because they know that if he eventually wins, they are finished. They
will stay in the party and try as much as possible to make sure that Jonathan
is defeated at the PDP primaries.
If by 2015, a northerner gets the presidency,
will it solve the problem of Boko Haram and insecurity in the North
Yes, I think it will solve a lot of problems.
It will be the end of Boko Haram
Yes. Automatically, Boko Haram will disappear. I am sure.
If that happens, don’t you think it will
kick-start another bloody agitation from the Niger-Delta, going by the threat
by Alhaji Dokubo-Asari that the militants will renew their bloody campaign if
President Jonathan is not returned in 2015
I don’t think so. When the time comes Dokubo-Asari and
his group will be taken care of. I think Nigeria will be stabilised as it used
to be under a northern leadership. These killings have never been witnessed in
Nigeria before now. You know it. Apart from the civil war, Nigeria had always
been a peaceful country until four years ago. Nobody ever thought Nigeria would
be as bad as this. You cannot move around in the night, you cannot move freely
in the day time. You cannot sleep with your two eyes closed; people will come
and kill you, steal your property and make your children orphans. It is a
terrible situation.
The people from the South-east are also
clamouring for presidency in 2015. Don’t you think they also deserve to be
given a chance to produce the president
The clamour of the South-east people to produce the
president of Nigeria is quite justified. I agree with them. We would have given
them that chance, but by accident, they allowed it to go to the South-south.
However, I want to inform you that we are currently talking with the elite from
the South-east. Though we have not reached any reasonable agreement, we are talking.
In fact, one of the people I admire in this country, right from when I was a
governor, is former Vice-President Alex Ekwueme. I like him, I respect him and
he likes me, too. We will engage people like him and I believe whatever we are
out to achieve will surely be achievable.